Thursday, June 18, 2009

Pig wrestling.

The old adage goes, "Never wrestle with a pig because you'll only get muddy and the pig enjoys it."

As usual, I'm going to ignore good advice.

Yesterday we had an anonymous visitor, what we used to call a troll in the early days. Then, as now, it's best not to engage trolls because they crave attention and have no interest in doing anything but toss crap about, like the other lower apes.

But he touched on something serious, something that deserves a response. He asked why I don't scorch Obama the way I used to scorch Bush. The most obvious answer is that Obama isn't Bush, thank God, but that doesn't mean I'm ecstatic about everything Obama's done. Yesterday's weasel on gay rights is a good example. I think he's playing too cautious with what is a basic civil rights issue.

There are other issues where Obama and I depart. But before we get into that, let's hear from our anonymous troll and his speculation as to why I've been less political this year than I was last, besides last year was an election year, that is:

"...you realized that your boy "the Messiah" has proven to be even worse than Rush and Sean told you he would be."


OK. First, he's not my boy. He's no one's boy except his momma's. To use that word in relation to a grown African American man brands you as a racist jackass. Second, I never suggested he was the Messiah. I don't believe in Messiahs.

And if Rush or Hannity told me that water was wet, I'd have to stick my hand in before I believed them.

Obama is not the Messiah. He's a politician. I know what to expect from politicians and that's compromise. That's if the politician is any good.

No politician is going to make me happy all the time. I'm just a blogger with an opinion. He's a politician who has to maneuver his way through a maze of competing constituents while wankers like Anonymous toss poo from the sidelines.

When I was young, back in the early days of the Nixon administration, I bitched about Dick being a dick. My uncle, a wise man, said that Nixon was a politician, and when we elect politicians we should expect them to act like politicians. As the scorpion said to the frog, you knew what I was when you offered me the ride.

The reason I voted for and supported Obama is that he was the first politician since I've been old enough to vote who didn't want to refight the sixties. I think that's why he did so well with young people. We're all heartily sick of refighting the same old battles. This forward look was refreshing.

Now that he falls short is disappointing, yes. But he's a politician. They are inherently disappointing. Back to Anonymous:

"He ignores the constitution, scoffs at the free market system, seeks to limit free speech, is on a mission to enact a healthcare system that has failed miserably all across Europe and in Canada ..."

One at a time.

He ignores the Constitution - I really don't like that Obama has extended the Bush policy on wiretapping, holding prisoners without trial, and a handful of other things. I think a lot of it is unConstitutional. But if that's ignoring the Constitution, the previous administration made it into a pinata.

Part of the problem is that the Bush people created a completely new category of prisoner - not criminal, not POW, but a limbo detainee where laws are selective and men are held at the whim of the president. Obama, a man who knows the Constitution, is trying to figure out a way to get those people back under the rule of law and it's not easy.

He scoffs at the free market system - Obama was handed a pretty shitty stick when he took office. Both parties had spent a lot of money rescuing banks and bankers. Now he's throwing money trying to rescue GM after decades of mismanagment. I don't think he's scoffing at the free market. I think he's trying to rescue it. This after the free marketeers like Anonymous had treated the market the way a baby treats a diaper.

He seeks to limit free speech - Really? It's tough to argue this when you give no examples. More poo-flinging.

He is on a mission to enact a healthcare system that has failed miserably all across Europe and in Canada - Wow, Anon, your Scopes link pretty much debunked your assertion that the Canadian healthcare system is a miserable failure and even your second source, no fan of Canada's system said this about our own:

"There’s no question that American health care, a mixture of private insurance and public programs, is a mess. Over the last five years, health-insurance premiums have more than doubled, leaving firms like General Motors on the brink of bankruptcy. Expensive health care has also hit workers in the pocketbook: it’s one of the reasons that median family income fell between 2000 and 2005 (despite a rise in overall labor costs). Health spending has surged past 16 percent of GDP. The number of ininsured Americans has risen, and even the insured seem dissatisfied. "

Not quite a ringing endorsement of our way, is it, Anonymous? And this was your source.

I was in the Army for almost 3 years and I know how dismal socialized medicine can be. But the people in France and Scandinavia seem quite happy with their health care systems.

Are you suggesting that they're smarter than we are, that they've somehow managed to do something that is beyond our intelligence and skill? Because that sounds like you hate America, Anonymous. That sounds like you think we're second-rate compared to France, and that can get you shot in some counties in Texas.

I, on the other hand, think America is quite capable of crafting a healthcare system that works.

But if you think Obama is trying to build that European model, you could not be more wrong. No, Obama's health plan uses the free market to spur insurance companies to compete with the same insurance coverage we give Republicans in Congress. He's not going for single-payer, and I think that's a mistake and I've written as much.

But Obama is smarter than both of us (judging by your comments) and he's been proven right before by going for what's practical versus what is ideological. In other words, he compromises. And that may just be a way out of the mess he's inherited.

But if you want to keep flinging around opinions that smell like you pulled them straight out of your ass, you go right ahead, Anonymous.

One last thing that bothered me about your comments: Your interpretation of Obama's failure is a little too gleeful for someone who wishes the best for his country. I think that glee reveals you to be more partisan than patriot.

But then true patriots have the guts to sign their names to their opinions.

Tomorrow: Making people you love laugh every day.

14 comments:

Jeff said...

What? No comment on Anon's crazy-ass claim about Palin "curb[ing] this ridiculous entitlement spending" when her administration has worked tirelessly to get huge chunks of federal cash for her State? For shame, Dave!

Seriously, man, this is why you have a blog, and we are merely allowed to comment/lurk on it. Kudos.

Anonymous said...

God damn! I turn my back for two seconds and look what I miss!

First off, don't confuse me with that anon ass-clown from yesterday. That ain't me, buddy. But I go anon so I don't have to worry about finding ass hats like that in my bushes corn-holing my cats.

As for yesterday's comments, a few points: he wants to go back to the glory days of our nation's founding (when boys like your Messiah could be purchased), he polled -- no, seriously -- two out of three of his klan buddies to determine that "your boy" sucks, and he thinks European healthcare blows.

Now, forgive me, but I am going to mention a poll I recently read about on CNN or MSNBC (fags, I know) that mentioned rates of happiness, satisfaction and fulfillment are highest in nations that pay the most taxes. Now, I figure when he thinks of happiness, satisfaction and fulfillment he pictures prison rape, but to each their own. I'm talking about solid healthcare, education and retirement benefits. Not that a European model would work here -- there are so many fat-assed diabetics in this country it'd be derailed before it got out of the station. That aside, blanket statements and smears ain't going to get us anywhere. And yes, I do see the irony.

Like a poster said yesterday, Dave: How do you manage to read this shit and continue to post such thoughtful and fair pieces? You're a good man.

Anon -- the socialist one.

David Terrenoire said...

I go anon so I don't have to worry about finding ass hats like that in my bushes corn-holing my cats.

It's comments like this that make me get up every day looking forward to writing a new post.

Well done, sir.

Anonymous said...

Well, glad I could provide some inspiration. I'd hate to think you'd give up your blog in order to follow your dream of playing harp for the Jonas Brothers.

David Terrenoire said...

Ah, but a man can dream.

Ray said...

As for the European healthcare system, while it may be needlessly bureaucratic and flawed to hell, I've never heard of anyone going bankrupt through hospital bills in Blighty, and in some weird vague way, I'm proud of that.

As for Obama, of course he was going to disappoint. I knew that the moment I read those books of his and they didn't have one single explosion, car chase or hot sex scene. And really, who wants to read books like that?

charlie stella said...

Annonymouseman: I was trying not to pounce on the republicans (because at this juncture I think they’re completely irrelevant and I prefer holding accountable those with the actual power to affect change), but here are a few facts to nibble on:

DEREGULATION was the main cause of our economic disaster. Reps couldn’t get enough and are still (speaking of DELUSIONAL) insistent on letting it (deregulation) fly. That’s just INSANE.

These dopey-assed wars are never ending and have NOTHING to do with homeland security. Since we can’t TRUST our government (either side of the aisle—remember most Dems couldn’t go to war fast enough and some didn’t bother reading intelligence reports before voting) to be honest with its citizens regarding just what is IN FACT a threat to our well-being, we’ll have to rely on counterpunching (granted, with whatever it takes, but no more throwing the first punch). Bush & Co. should’ve been (and still should be) tried as war criminals in The Hague and should’ve been impeached by the Dems. Why they weren’t just goes to show you how useless both organizations are.

Health Insurance: Unless you can live with people having no coverage and others losing what they’ve spent their lives accumulating to health costs (because there isn’t any health insurance for them), I guess you should stay with the Reps/Dems health plan (which is just forking it over to drug companies and the like while people suffer incomprehensible losses in the richest country in the world). At this point in history, that is nothing short of criminal.

State Ownership. I’ll give you this much; this government couldn’t run a lemonade stand, but to think that deregulating the economy is the answer is to ignore what just went down (the last 8 PLUS years). Both parties are responsible (because DEMS did have the majority since 2006) but there’s no avoiding the fact that Reps OWN THIS MESS.

The stimulus: Mouse’s party (12 Reps) were the clowns who held out for the initial $150 billion in bribes before Obama took his oath. Forget what it spent under Bush, what it continues to cost this country because of wars it charged into without a clue how to end. The stimulus is supposed to be the bone Wall Street throws us (through their puppet—the US Government). What workers had to give up/lose, I find revolutionary, but that’s another argument for another day.

If you seriously think Ms. Palin would do this country some good other than providing Larry Flynt good porn parody material, there’s no hope for you, my anonymous friend. Accept this fact: the woman is clueless. I’m not saying she’s stupid, but her moral majority slogans just aren’t going to solve the problems of a modern Republican Party. Her inability to understand the broader world is staggering. She didn’t look bad during those interviews last year, she was bad. Face it, the horses have left the barn.

Until we adjust capitalism enough (toward socialism) to effect the disparities in this country, Wall Street will continue to govern all of us as they see fit. Don’t forget, they’re too big to let go under—pure extortion, but it worked big time for Wall Street.

My only beef with Dave is his use of a very feeble theme: He wrote: “Your interpretation of Obama's failure is a little too gleeful for someone who wishes the best for his country. I think that glee reveals you to be more partisan than patriot.”

Reading some of his quotes about Bush & Co. leave me baffled. They sure seemed gleeful to me. And that “more partisan than patriot” ditty has a definite Bill O’Reilly ring to it.

The other issue would be Dave’s seemingly anxious acceptance of compromise (either as an excuse for getting little done or as an elixir for what little will get done). You can call it compromise all you want; I call it caving the fuck in. I’m sure you know what workers lost vs. Wall Street. If that was a compromise, I’m a very thin man.

Peace.

And Anonymous will always = coward … even for socialists.

Stephen Blackmoore said...

WHAT?

No hot sex scene? Goddammit!

And to think I voted for that fucker.

Rabid Fox said...

It's comment sections like this that make me glad I troll the blogosphere. :) Top drawer, sirs.

Anonymous said...

PART 1...

Oh, how nice of you guys to devote a whole post to the conservative movement. At least I know you are listening. Well, I doubt you are going to open your mind to good sense, but I will give it another try…

Let's take care of three things right now. First, I'll ignore good advice as well because I am we aware if I am going to clean any of you little piggies up, I am likely going to get a little muddy. I have no problem with that.

Second, you guys can call me names all day long, “mouse,” “troll” - doesn't really matter to me. But it should be noted that only a liberal twit would call a person who is simply stating a dissenting opinion on a PUBLIC blog forum, a troll. That goes to the very fabric of what is wrong with liberals. No respect for or willingness to even LISTEN to another prospective.

Third, don't call my patriotism into question. It is bad form. I would never question your patriotism because I have enough sense to know that someone who is passionate about politics likely has his countries best interests at heart. And I truly believe that you believe that your liberal anti-constitutional ideas are the way to make America a better country. Unfortunately you are wrong. But, I never called into question your patriotism and I request the same respect.

Oh, and one more thing. Don't call me a racist. If you think I'm a racist, you probably wouldn't know a racist if he kicked you in the balls. “Your boy” simply means that he is a guy with whom you commiserate (no doubt over the fact that we still have some freedoms in this country). Someone you have an interst in, with whom you have some commonalities... a guy you might vote for. It doesn't matter that he is multi-racial you twit. Ronald Regan is “my boy.” He is white. I am white... simple as that. Why do liberals always want to bring race into everything?

Now, let me just go through this diatribe of yours point by point.

I didn't say you called him “the messiah.” That is what “we” call him because that is the way he acts. And, OF COURSE you don't believe in messiahs, that’s typical of tyrants and their supporters...

You say you expect compromise from politicians and messiah even said that he, in fact, wanted to reach across the isle to get “real change” for America. Of course, that like everything else that comes out of his mouth, was a lie. How do I know he has no interest in compromise? He didn't listen for even two seconds to the republicans on the porkulus bill that he passed. And that wasn't the worst of it. He and his cronies didn't even give anyone time to read through it before it was put to a vote. I guess it was just to pressing. Of course, it didn't work, just like the Republicans tried to tell him it wouldn't because you DON’T stimulate the economy by increasing government spending, you do it by cutting taxes. Every economist worth his salt knows this. But not messiah and his band of geniuses.

Anonymous said...

PART 2...

“He didn't want to refight the sixties?” His “forward look” was refreshing? You really bought into all that crap? Then you admit he has fallen short. Of course he has. He isn't interested in being progressive. He is interested in reshaping America into a socialist society which is a direct violation of his oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

Which leads us to your analysis of “Bush did it why not Obama,” with regards to wire taps and blah, blah. Blah. First of all, that isn't even the reason he has violated the constitution. How about his appointment of 16+ Czars that report only to Messiah and were never subjected to even a background check, much less congressional confirmation?

Please don't start on Gitmo. There wasn't a single slimeball in that facility that wasn't guilty of war crimes against the United States. You first have to understand that the definition of “war” has completely changed with the War on Terrorism. Of course you know that, don't you? You keep up that front, though. Even messiah knows it and that is why he has ADDED troops to the middle east and kept all of Bush's national security policies. If we don't treat these guys as POW's, we cannot reasonably put our kids to bed and expect them to wake up the next morning. Let's ask the families of the victims of the World Trade Center how they feel about these policies.

Again, your response to my Free Market comments have nothing to do with my intention. I know that both parties have spent money to bail out companies. And guess what? BOTH parties are wrong. No, what I am talking about is more his 1 trillion dollar porkulus bill that pumped money into government programs rather than the private sector where it might do some good. Now he is proposing a socialist healthcare bill that, according to the congressional budget office, will cost another trillion dollars over the next 10 years and in that time will only manage to insure 15 million of the 47 million currently uninsured Americans. On top of all that, Congress has admitted they have no idea how they are going to pay for it. Of course we know how they are going to pay for it, don't we Davy? That's right, new taxes! And of course this program isn't aimed to provide “competition” to the private sector insurers. It is designed to ELIMINATE them. He said as much on the campaign trail. I heard him say with my own ears that he was aware that a single payer system would not be accepted right away. He stated his plan was to get a “public option” up and running and then over the course of 5, 10 or 15 years, move everyone over the public option. That is simply deceitful. It's underhanded. It's status quo for the messiah.

And by the way, my Scopes link did nothing to debunk the TRUTH that socialized medicine is a nightmare. Almost every attempt to debunk the post by a FIRST HAND ACCOUNT was simply, “Well, it is different in different parts of Canada...” That is not a defense or a debunking. That is BS. You know it, I know it. You cannot dismiss all these horrific first hand accounts. I don't care how badly you want to. You just can't.

In fact, I heard another story over the weekend about a guy who lived in Canada for a while and during his time there he had a colon prolapse. After spending three miserable days in the hospital waiting on an operating room, his doctor finally told him they couldn’t wait any longer… Three orderlies held him down as the doctor began to cut on his colon with only local anesthetic because they couldn’t get access to an OR for a medical EMERGENCY!!!

And no, I don't think American can put together a socialist health care plan that will work, BECAUSE SOCIALIZED MEDICINE DOESN'T WORK!!!

Anonymous said...

PART 3...

Here is a quote about your beloved French system...

Rice University alum Elizabeth Dutertre, who's lived in France since 1968, has had good and bad experiences with French health care.

"Many liberal Americans are convinced that the French system is the be-all and end-all solution to health care costs in the United States," she said. "But the system is costly to both the workers and the state. In fact, it is going bankrupt."

In fact, French citizens pay over $100 a month for their coverage and they have to pay for services up front on top of that and wait to be reimbursed. How may of the 47 million Americans currently without healthcare could afford $100+ a month PLUS upfront costs to go to the doctor? Yeah, not many.

And here is a description of the Scandinavian healthcare system...

The Federal Government establishes a budgetary limit for each municipality, and local leaders formulate policies and services within those constraints according to the unique needs and desires of the community.

This is EXACTLY what we are so afraid of: “budgetary limits for each municipality” You need a procedure or medicine and it isn't in the budget, guess what? You suffer. I have seen government trying to stick to a budge. NO F'ING THANKS!!! This is just the few dictating to the many with regards the the GOOD HEALTH of the many. You are INSANE if you are willing to give that kind of power to few.

Socialized Health Care does not work. Period. We have to find a Free Market solution.

Obama doesn't compromise. At least he hasn't since taking office. That's just an ignorant statement and you know it.

I'm not gleeful about the failure of messiah. I am gleeful at the failure of Socialist/statist/liberal ideals and policies. That is all. I want nothing more than for this country to thrive, but I also know that we cannot get back to the principals that will lead to that until we get rid of messiah. I know his policies will fail and I can't wait to kick his ass out of office.

I have said my peace. But I will be back to comment on any other BS you happen to post in the future.

If you have any sense at all you will look more critically at socialized medicine ESPECIALLY the single payer system. I will enjoy watching you guys ringing your hands in the coming years as Liberalism and socialism are exposed as the enslavement ideology that it is. When this Obama mess is over, Liberalism may very well be the most prominent casualty.

Tom said...

Yo, Cowardly Anonymous Rectal Cavity - you can have your own blog, you know.

Meanwhile, you're getting your nuts off by stealing someone else's web space. Anonymously.

Not a great endorsement of the Ownership Society.

Gary M said...

Congratulations, David. You've obviously tied a knot in this guy's colon to the point he worked all weekend writing this spastic diatribe. I particularly enjoyed his new "evidence"- with orderlies holding down a sick man while the surgeon carved him up.

Again, all opinion and anecdotal "evidence". I can provide the same anecdotal accounts of the "horrors" of our healthcare system.

And why wait to watch someone wring their hands when you can look in the mirror now? Take a breath, cowardly lion...